How Caleb Hommel Hit 200 Units and a $5M Fannie Loan at 22

Original automatic captions. Names, numbers, and punctuation may contain transcription errors.

0:00 Hello and welcome back to the owner
0:01 meeting podcast with Christian Osgar,
0:03 your host. This is a multif family
0:05 strategy production and we are here with
0:07 my very good friend Caleb Haml who's
0:11 coming on for another episode. This kid
0:13 started at 19 years old. He's at just
0:16 about 200 rental units today at 22.
0:21 So about a 2 and a half year career.
0:24 He's done deals with joint ventures,
0:27 creative finance, conventional finance.
0:30 He's refinanced several of these. He
0:33 just got a $5 million bank loan direct
0:38 from Fanny at 22 years old. That is
0:41 supposed to be impossible to do. He
0:43 started with no money. The man, the
0:45 myth, the legend, Caleb Hmel, welcome
0:47 back to the channel, my friend.
0:48 Thanks for having me. Appreciate the big
0:51 introduction. Dude, you're a big deal in
0:53 real estate. I don't think most people
0:55 understand just how far you are, unlike
0:58 me. You are not as loud of a marketer,
1:02 which is fine, but I don't know that the
1:04 world knows how much stuff you've bought
1:06 or just how impressive you are. So, big
1:08 intro is what you deserve, my friend.
1:10 Uh, dude, I'm loving the background.
1:12 Loving the studio. Where are you uh
1:13 where are you joining from? Shockingly,
1:15 downstairs in your house. I didn't want
1:17 to move the other chair into the studio
1:19 today, so I relegated Caleb to the
1:21 basement. Thank you for
1:23 Thank you for joining from studio B. I
1:25 actually have three studios in my house,
1:27 but uh you're in the one that I usually
1:28 do a lot of mentorship from on the
1:30 laptop. So, welcome on into the podcast
1:34 from wherever you guys are joining,
1:35 whether you're on iTunes, Spotify,
1:37 YouTube, wherever you're viewing. This
1:39 is the owner meeting podcast. We want to
1:41 bring the owners of the best businesses,
1:43 especially real estate, but all business
1:45 to you to learn from them. Their
1:47 success, their mistakes, save you money,
1:50 make you money. This is how you build
1:52 business. You get connected with the
1:54 people who have done the thing you want
1:55 to do. Caleb, in many ways, you're
1:57 living the dream for people. First
1:59 question I have for you, let's just kick
2:00 off with the thing that I think
2:02 everyone's wondering.
2:04 You joined at 18 years old to multif
2:06 family strategy.
2:07 You graduated high school. What made you
2:09 at 18 and 19 years old think you could
2:11 succeed with no money, no credit, no
2:14 experience, no job? What made you think
2:18 that you would succeed just diving head
2:20 first into real estate? Yeah, that's a
2:23 heck of a question. I think the biggest
2:25 thing that just allowed just the belief
2:27 of success and the belief in myself was
2:30 played a lot of competitive baseball
2:31 growing up. Definitely wasn't as good as
2:33 most of the kids you could say. Growing
2:35 up, you had kids that were already
2:36 getting scholarship offers, all this
2:38 stuff, yada yada yada. Being 5'10, 215,
2:41 nobody really cared what I did or how
2:43 much I worked and started off kind of at
2:45 the lower levels and then by senior year
2:47 of high school had become one of the
2:50 better hitters in California. So, kind
2:51 of had gone from horrendous, you could
2:53 say, to actually seeing pretty good
2:55 levels of success, going to college,
2:56 playing baseball in college. And then
2:59 got there, started looking around. I was
3:00 like, do I really want to go slog out
3:02 this baseball thing or is this a means
3:04 to an end? I really hate school. I
3:06 already did something hard once. Let's
3:07 go try something hard again and try to
3:09 build a business out of it.
3:11 That's that's absolutely incredible.
3:13 With your first deal, for those who
3:15 haven't seen your past episodes, and we
3:16 will get into this $5 million bank loan
3:18 you just got.
3:19 Yeah.
3:20 But when you got started, how did you
3:23 get into and fund your first deal?
3:25 Because as we know, it's not free
3:28 to get into real estate. You have
3:29 earnest money. You have the main
3:31 obstacles that people who have little to
3:33 no money have is like, how do I even get
3:34 the seed capital to get through the
3:37 first two months of I went under
3:39 contract and I'm closing a deal. How did
3:41 you pull that off for deal number one
3:42 and deal number two as you were getting
3:44 started?
3:45 Um, I have a Chase credit card to thank
3:48 for that. That
3:50 fun funded EMD and some early
3:52 preliminary expenses while under
3:53 contract with the credit card. When
3:55 Christian said I truly had no money, it
3:56 was like payments to join multif family
3:59 strategy at 18. Payments bounce, what
4:01 would you say? Every single month for
4:03 about eight months. I just go door dash
4:05 the next week and make it up. So if I
4:07 can't pay,
4:07 we no longer do a subscription model.
4:09 It's now all just one time. I don't
4:11 believe in mentorships that are
4:14 incentivized to keep you there longer. I
4:16 would completely agree. I want you to
4:17 succeed. So we changed our billing model
4:19 since then, but it used to be nominal
4:21 price per month. And uh yes, I can say
4:23 for a fact uh after your first payment,
4:25 your next three all bounced.
4:27 And I I remember the call getting I
4:29 remember where I was when I got the call
4:30 from you asking what was going on. I was
4:32 like, I'm Door Dashing. I'll figure it
4:34 out. But if I didn't have if I didn't
4:36 have the money for that, I sure sack
4:38 didn't have like 7 to 10K in EMD earnest
4:40 money ready to go.
4:42 Well, you figured out as part of your
4:44 career, you figured out liquidity.
4:46 Yes. For context, Caleb today lives at
4:50 near the penthouse of one of the nicer
4:52 buildings in Dallas. He has a beautiful
4:54 view of the Dallas skyline, new
4:57 furniture. You're about to get married.
4:59 Uh he's engaged.
5:02 Incredible. You have estimated I don't
5:05 know if you have seven figures, but you
5:06 have at least six figures in your bank
5:07 account right now. You have income
5:09 coming in. You have all of these rental
5:12 properties
5:14 unbelievably farther than I was at 22,
5:17 which at 22 I was screen printing
5:19 t-shirts for $11 an hour, freshly
5:21 graduated from college with no idea what
5:22 to do with a degree I didn't know how to
5:24 use. You've absolutely killed it. So,
5:26 first of all, huge inspiration to a lot
5:29 of people. You've since figured out how
5:31 to get liquid buying deals and you have
5:35 done syndication, you have done JVS,
5:36 you've done it both ways when you're
5:39 closing on a joint venture, which is I
5:41 think where most people are starting and
5:42 should start.
5:44 Couldn't agree more.
5:45 How are you getting liquidity while
5:47 you're also building a portfolio? I
5:49 think a lot of people get stuck there. I
5:50 know I certainly didn't know this for my
5:52 first few years of real estate.
5:53 Yeah, it definitely wasn't something
5:55 where I went in off the bat were like,
5:56 "Hey, I'm going to go in and buy this
5:57 deal and get liquidity." That was not
5:59 the expectation going in. The
6:00 expectation was, hey, it's a slow burn.
6:02 We're going to build generational
6:03 wealth. There's going to be cash flow
6:04 every month, but it's not going to be
6:05 this giant injection of cash off the
6:07 bat. And then started learning about
6:09 assignment fees, what that could look
6:10 like on a joint venture. And then
6:12 eventually doing syndications,
6:13 realizing, oh, there's actually an
6:14 acquisition fee. And there these
6:16 different types of things. It's just
6:19 structured slightly differently from a
6:20 joint venture to a syndication. Just
6:22 making sure you're staying in the black
6:25 and white, not going too much into the
6:27 gray area of like taking a certain ACT
6:29 fee on a joint venture that's more than
6:31 you should or a syndication some things
6:33 like that. I wish more people would say
6:35 that taking too big of fees. I see a lot
6:38 and this is why I think people have a
6:39 bad taste in their mouth about
6:40 syndication still.
6:41 Couldn't agree more
6:42 is people do this like 5% acquisition
6:45 fee, 2% asset management fee, 2%
6:48 property management. You look at the fee
6:50 structure, you're like, "Oh my goodness,
6:52 where do the investors actually get
6:54 paid?" And those are the groups that
6:56 ended up doing capital calls on their
6:58 investors because they ran out of money
7:00 and needed more money.
7:01 Yeah. And then it's funny that those
7:02 people, this isn't to say deals can't go
7:04 bad. Stuff happens, economy hits, 2008,
7:07 whatever, but it's like, it's funny.
7:10 Those investors who were taking the 5%
7:11 ACT fee, the property management fee on
7:13 top of paying a PM is the thing that
7:15 gets me. It's like, "Hey, I'm going to
7:16 pay a third party PM and then charge my
7:18 investors as well." It's like, that
7:20 makes no sense to me sometimes.
7:22 We're managing the manager.
7:24 The dumbest thing I've ever heard.
7:25 I agree.
7:27 But it's funny, those groups are the
7:29 ones whose deals get capital calls, but
7:30 the GPS aren't the ones putting all the
7:33 money back into the deal. Their pockets
7:34 are lined. They're fine. They don't
7:36 care. They're under contract on a
7:38 thousand more units, not even thinking
7:40 about putting any of their own money
7:41 into anything.
7:42 What's the difference between an
7:44 assignment fee and an acquisition fee?
7:46 Because they're both paid to you, the
7:48 deal structure at close, but when do you
7:51 use each and what is a reasonable price
7:55 to actually charge for that?
7:56 Yeah, in my head, the assignment fees
7:59 are typically associated more with
8:00 wholesaling, which is associated with
8:02 joint ventures, smaller deals. You're
8:04 not you don't see a lot of people
8:05 wholesaling 100, 200, 300 unit
8:07 buildings. That's not something I really
8:09 see as much. I see offers for it but
8:11 don't see it going through. Assignment
8:14 fees, excuse me, are typically on
8:15 wholesaling. It's kind of like
8:16 wholesaling to yourself is kind of when
8:18 those come into play. Let's say I put a
8:20 deal under contract as Caleb Pommel and
8:22 or assigns that that for assigning that
8:25 project to an LLC, which I am going to
8:28 be a member of is usually I go below 1%.
8:30 Typically, I've seen on J on JVS with
8:32 the assignment fee. You can go a little
8:34 bit higher than on the ACT fee, the
8:36 acquisition fee for syndications. Those
8:39 typically are a few percent upfront. So
8:41 I think the ACT fees are a little higher
8:43 than the assignment fees are is
8:44 typically what I've seen. I've seen that
8:46 consistently as well. And a lot of that
8:47 is covering the fact that they're
8:49 typically more expensive to put
8:50 together, right? You have more legal
8:52 fees. There's more hoops to jump
8:54 through. A syndicated structure with the
8:56 capital raise, the reporting, the
8:58 effort, and the financing that you get
9:00 for them. It is actually more literal
9:03 work to put it together, which is what
9:05 you're getting compensated for. Dude, on
9:07 Riverwalk we just did the 76 you and I
9:09 just took out mo most arduous
9:11 underwriting process I could have
9:12 imagined. It was like I was not aware of
9:15 what I was stepping into. There was one
9:17 I had a late payment on a card I'd
9:19 canceled from when I just turned 18.
9:21 Literally $20 late payment. Told BFA I
9:24 was cancelceing the card. They said
9:25 acknowledged it via email and over the
9:27 phone. And then I still get a late
9:28 charge. I get an email like, "Hey, what
9:30 is this late charge from over 36 months
9:31 ago?" I'm like, "How did you even know
9:33 about this for less than $20?" Oh, and
9:36 we had investors on that deal who uh had
9:38 a similar name to other people who lived
9:40 in a totally different area of the state
9:42 and they had them sign a dendum saying
9:45 like essentially or an affidavit saying
9:47 like, "Hey, that's not me." Insane. The
9:50 level of scrutiny is very very high. The
9:53 level of legal bills was also very very
9:55 high on the lite-ch deal that is
9:56 syndicated with Fanny May. Dear
9:58 goodness, very difficult. And and you
10:01 pulled it off, which is what? So So
10:03 let's talk about that and let's talk
10:04 about your next deal, Anson Park. And
10:06 let's do it.
10:07 So you just closed 76 units.
10:09 Yep.
10:10 13 and a half acres.
10:13 Mhm.
10:13 Clubhouse, pool, computer lab, gym,
10:17 playgrounds, the whole nine yards. You
10:19 got at 22 a $5 million plus loan from
10:23 the bank. Now, right now in the market,
10:26 Fanny is not giving out money for free.
10:28 They are not a fan of syndicators.
10:30 That's why the scrutiny is so high. It
10:31 is very hard to get the debt that you
10:33 got on this. And you went 80% loan to
10:36 value, which is very rare in today's
10:38 market. How did you get these terms and
10:43 how honestly how much did you have to
10:44 scale your business to even qualify for
10:46 this? Yeah. So, let's start with how did
10:48 we get the terms? So, Fanny May like
10:51 they kind of break it down into certain
10:52 markets, per se. Like there's certain
10:54 cuto offs. I learned this actually under
10:55 contract that for agency debt, there's
10:58 maximums they have per area. So some
11:00 areas it's 80% LTV. Some areas it's 70%
11:03 LTV. Some are 65% LTV is more tertiary
11:06 you go that requires a higher DSCR. So
11:09 Stevenville where we bought this one
11:10 actually lies within an area that is a
11:12 1.25 DSCR requirement with 80% leverage.
11:16 So one, we already had a deal that could
11:18 size potentially. And I mean let's talk
11:20 about the deal we bought. I mean, I
11:21 think day one DSCR I saw was above a 1.5
11:24 to 1.6.
11:26 The D the DSCR was ludicrous. So, we
11:29 have that level of deal and we take it
11:30 to Fanny through a delegated
11:32 underwriting service. It makes it
11:33 getting the debt was a pain, but I've
11:35 heard horror stories of it being a lot
11:37 worse for sure.
11:38 Yeah. Shout out to uh Mark and Robbie.
11:41 Literally getting it done.
11:44 Best best originator, best debt broker
11:46 I've worked with.
11:47 Yeah, they're they're with Arbor.
11:48 Absolutely. Uh they they are incredible
11:50 and they had a lot of patience because
11:52 this is a debt product that I had not
11:54 been through. Caleb had not been through
11:55 before. We've done bank debt. We've gone
11:57 through local credit unions. We've gone
11:58 through banks. We've done the the
12:00 standard things.
12:01 Yep.
12:02 They had the patience to work with us on
12:04 a a very sizable loan. And now that we
12:07 actually have the debt from Fanny, now
12:09 it's much easier to get it again.
12:11 But I just I just want to point out what
12:13 a huge accomplishment that is. You got a
12:15 bank to look at you as a 22-y old and
12:18 granted we're working on it together. So
12:19 me as a 33-y old, you as a 22-y old, but
12:21 we're the point people on this deal.
12:23 Yeah.
12:23 You're talking young people
12:26 at the time. You you were not super
12:28 super liquid.
12:30 You have some liquidity, but you didn't
12:31 have really high liquidity. You do have
12:32 very high
12:34 not funing the down payment by myself,
12:35 that's for sure.
12:36 And we figured out how to put together
12:38 that deal. We got debt that's hard to
12:40 get. uh what you pulled off at 22 is
12:43 something that most people don't pull
12:45 off till much much much much later in
12:47 their career. Now you qualify for bigger
12:50 and different deals. Uh so the natural
12:52 response to this within a few weeks of
12:54 closing the 76 I believe within about 10
12:56 days. I think it was about 10 days you
12:58 went under contract for Anson Park one
13:01 and two.
13:03 Tell us about that deal.
13:05 Yeah Park one and two um is in Abene
13:08 Texas. For those who don't know, um,
13:10 Abene, Texas, even before the news that
13:11 broke a little bit earlier this year,
13:12 was a pretty stable market. You've got
13:14 three colleges, you've got a military
13:15 base, you actually got some aviation,
13:17 mechanical, um, engineering areas with
13:19 American Airlines subsidies. You got
13:21 pretty stable economy there. And then
13:24 you go ahead and add the fact that the
13:25 Stargate project between um, between
13:27 Open AI and Oracle announces a 500
13:30 billion dollar development, which
13:32 happens to be less. What would you say
13:34 that was a six minute drive
13:36 from four to four to six minutes? It's
13:39 Yeah,
13:39 it's on Old Anson Road. The name of
13:41 Anson Park being, you know, it's on Old
13:44 Anen Road.
13:45 Yeah, right next door. I believe it is
13:49 the closest or maybe second closest
13:51 apartment complex to the development. I
13:53 think we're second clo actually. No,
13:55 we're closest cuz the other complex
13:56 we're looking at attaching to this one
13:58 and buying the next deal right after
14:00 this is the second closest one, I
14:02 believe. So, we're going to be the two
14:03 closest complexes to the Stargate
14:06 project. That's ridiculous. Okay. So,
14:08 how many total units then assuming that
14:10 the other one comes together? So, you
14:12 have Anthem Park one and two, which is
14:13 one package. Then you have
14:15 the other property. How large is that?
14:18 So, with Anson Park one and two, which
14:20 essentially is one project was developed
14:22 in two phases in a few years, that is
14:25 144 units. Then the other project is 81
14:27 units right down the street.
14:30 Dude, that's a lot of real estate.
14:31 You're talking like 225 units.
14:35 Exactly. I'm talking 225 units. That is
14:38 is a wildly large transaction. How big
14:41 of a capital raise is this going to be?
14:43 We're looking closer to the five and a
14:45 half to $6 million mark on the total
14:47 capital raise. Woo.
14:50 All right. Uh now the last capital raise
14:52 you did was what about $2 million to
14:54 close out the
14:55 right about 2.1. This is a lot larger
14:58 raise. How far into that raise are you
15:00 so far?
15:01 We're looking around the 20 to 25% mark.
15:04 We already we aren't even through
15:05 feasibility yet. So, we have plenty of
15:08 time to go. We've got plenty of
15:09 extensions built into these things,
15:10 especially for
15:12 LITC. A lot of people don't know out
15:13 there.
15:14 The hardest part of closing lit is
15:16 dealing with the housing comm the
15:20 department of housing community and
15:21 affairs will randomly throw extensions
15:24 on those timelines sometimes for seems
15:25 like the littlest things ever. So, we've
15:28 got plenty of time to raise the rest.
15:30 Really zero stress about it. That's So,
15:32 you you just raised $2 million. Like,
15:34 first time ever you've done a seven
15:36 figure raise,
15:36 correct?
15:37 You're already over a million dollars
15:39 into your raise for your next 5 to$6
15:42 million raise. You're 22 years old. And
15:45 by the way, Kayla's running point on
15:46 this raise. This is I I helped with the
15:48 I helped prep the pitch deck. That's
15:50 that's that's about as much as I've done
15:52 on the on the capital raise part so far.
15:54 So Caleb is presenting this, finding
15:56 people, reaching out. How did you build
15:59 your network to a size and build the
16:02 confidence going under contract? You've
16:03 never raised this type of money before.
16:05 You had never raised $2 million in your
16:06 life.
16:07 Not at all.
16:07 How did you have the confidence to raise
16:08 $2 million? How did you come off that
16:10 with the confidence of like, oh, I just
16:12 did two. Let's do five. That I think for
16:14 most people that seems incomprehensible.
16:17 Yeah. Confidence. We can go back to kind
16:19 of tracing it all the way back literally
16:20 to that high school baseball story of
16:22 thinking, hey, nobody really is supposed
16:23 to do this and I did something that
16:26 wasn't supposed to happen. Granted,
16:27 baseball in Southern California is
16:29 already extremely competitive. Did that
16:31 and I was like, let's go buy real
16:32 estate. Ended up buying 100 doors. Then
16:34 I was like, why don't we just if I want
16:36 to go bigger and I want to be who I say
16:37 I want to be, I'm going to have to climb
16:39 this mountain at some point. Why not
16:40 now? So got Riverwalk out of the way.
16:43 And as far as building the network goes
16:45 with that, it's actually some advice I
16:47 heard on a podcast a long time ago. Came
16:49 over as Brandon Turner or somebody else,
16:51 but it was something super silly of just
16:53 talking to everybody about what you do
16:55 and have applied that to essentially my
16:57 life and anybody asked what I do. It
16:58 starts off with real estate before any
16:59 of my other businesses. That's the first
17:01 thing that comes up. And everybody that
17:03 I've ever met pretty much wants to get
17:05 into real estate or is in real estate in
17:07 some capacity. And if you just keep
17:09 talking about what you do enough, that's
17:10 going to lead to people are like, "Hey,
17:11 do you know Caleb is actually working on
17:13 a deal right now? You've got a few
17:14 hundred,000 to place. You should go talk
17:15 to him about this.
17:17 If you just keep talking about what you
17:18 do enough, it works." I actually had um
17:20 one of both of our good friends, Mr.
17:22 Wang, text me this week, and we talked
17:24 about Matt on the podcast. I love Matt.
17:26 Yeah, we had talked about this advice
17:27 actually over a year ago at one of your
17:29 Robin Hood events. I had a text from him
17:31 came in at like I think it was past
17:33 midnight central time because he's on
17:34 the west coast and he was like hey the
17:36 advice literally this advice we talked
17:38 about led to him he's about to go under
17:39 contract on another deal it looks like
17:42 after this one. So it's just the
17:43 confidence comes from just doing hard
17:45 things kind of over and over and then
17:47 that network comes from just talking
17:48 about what you do with anyone and
17:50 everyone you come across has been my
17:52 biggest finding it. So this has been the
17:54 biggest gifting in in watching what
17:57 multif family strategy has become over
17:58 the last 5 years. Guys like Matt Wang,
18:01 Chris Jordan, Phil Toth, you I've had
18:04 all you guys on the podcast. We've got a
18:06 lot more mentees who bought real estate,
18:08 but these are people who go and they buy
18:09 again and again and again. And what you
18:12 find is people think that you need to
18:14 start with the duplex or the single
18:16 family house. You don't. But the speed
18:19 in which you can go, like you got to 100
18:21 units and you went, "Oh, that's not that
18:23 bad." Bought a 76, bought another 26,
18:26 bought a 44, you're buying 144 and
18:29 you're like, "Hey, you know what? While
18:30 we're out here, let's buy the 81 unit
18:32 next door at the same time." The
18:35 illustration here is if you are sitting
18:37 here stuck on the single family or the
18:39 duplex or the house hack, it doesn't
18:42 mean you can't buy those. House hacking
18:43 can be a great strategy,
18:45 but the business that you can scale is
18:47 easier to scale than you think. It's not
18:50 that it's easy, but it's unbelievably
18:53 easier than I think most people make it.
18:55 I would totally agree. I think even
18:57 going back to like certain problems we
18:58 face in our current business or even
18:59 going back to when I was getting
19:00 started, it's this mindset of you just
19:03 you put it it's in the you don't know
19:04 what you don't know box. And a lot of
19:06 people are too scared to even venture
19:08 into that box and kind of jump in the
19:09 deep end and have the confidence in
19:11 themselves that they will figure it out.
19:12 So they just keep playing in the kitty
19:14 the kitty pool so to speak with buying
19:16 one single family a year. Okay, now I'm
19:17 in a forplex. Okay, 5 years later I
19:19 might buy an eightplex. It's like if
19:21 they just had the confidence to dive in,
19:23 be like realize the fact they're going
19:24 to make some mistakes along the way.
19:26 Nobody's going to be perfect, but you're
19:28 going to sink or swim. And having the
19:30 belief in yourself that you're going to
19:31 make it through would have allowed them
19:32 to scale so much farther. And I've
19:34 already seen that in myself in a few
19:35 years. I wish I would I sound so stupid
19:38 because I'm already I'm 22. I wish I
19:40 would have gone bigger earlier talking
19:41 to um Kathy at our inspection who's
19:43 managed over 80,000 units at one time in
19:45 her career.
19:46 It was these bigger complexes are
19:48 actually easier to run, harder to buy
19:50 because the capital raise size of deals
19:52 are bigger when you're scaling up.
19:54 So much easier to run. You don't have to
19:56 be offsite. Everything is on site.
19:57 Everybody is at the complex. Your your
20:00 property manager lives there. Your
20:01 maintenance man lives there. And just
20:03 having the belief once you get to that
20:04 point, the game already I'm seeing on
20:06 deals that are coming across my desk
20:08 even today has started changing even
20:10 more.
20:10 Well, and and now what you've done is is
20:12 you're you're really buying a business,
20:14 right? You're buying a business that has
20:16 that has some on-site staff. You have
20:18 employees. Speaking of at 22, you have a
20:22 portfolio of real estate, which is the
20:24 core of your business. You also have a
20:25 portfolio of companies. What does your
20:28 portfolio look like today? like just
20:30 give us the high level buildings and
20:32 unit counts and then other companies
20:35 that you own and operate. Yeah, I think
20:38 I'm at 100. I actually don't even know
20:40 how many real estate units I'm at. I'm
20:41 at 180. I'm either at 185 or 195 units
20:44 currently. Buying another 144 to 224.
20:48 So, I'll be over probably what around
20:50 that 300 to 400 mark by the end of the
20:52 year pretty easily. 400 actually. And
20:54 then on top of that um have the property
20:56 management company Apex Asset Management
20:58 based out of North and Central Texas
21:00 primarily in Stevenville, Waco and
21:01 Abalene. And then on top of that um also
21:04 have funnel stacking which is for
21:05 coaches, consultants and mentors. We
21:08 handle the sales and funnel in the name
21:10 funnel stacking the funnel buildout for
21:12 these mentors to allow them to build
21:13 their programs and mentorships.
21:15 And that company has been incredible too
21:16 watching what that's done. It it helps
21:18 power multif family strategy. But we
21:20 have some there's some other clients
21:21 that you represent that are just awesome
21:24 big names real estate and other coaching
21:26 programs. I I love what you've done with
21:28 that company.
21:29 How many employees do you have in that?
21:31 Cuz you're the CEO of that company. How
21:32 many how many employees do you have
21:35 currently in that company?
21:37 Gosh, after staffing this weekend, we'll
21:40 be at one, two, three, four, five,
21:45 about eight more there. We're going to
21:46 be at about 12 to 14 people in the org.
21:49 probably by after we finish this next
21:50 round of hiring.
21:52 That's not half bad. Caleb has taken
21:54 that company. I love the way that it
21:56 works. So, this is just a shameless plug
21:57 to it.
21:58 But they only take coaches who've
22:02 actually done the thing that they talk
22:03 about. So, there's no there's no people
22:05 who are like, "Hey, look at my boat and
22:07 my cars and my fancy watch." Not that
22:09 some of his coaches don't have those
22:11 things.
22:12 Absolutely they do.
22:13 I'm thinking of uh uh Anthony with the
22:16 the section A guys. They
22:17 Yep. He he's hilarious, but they
22:20 actually do the thing. Like you can go
22:22 out, you can watch them do their
22:23 properties. They their student success
22:25 is incredible. You take the
22:27 non-influencer brands
22:30 and you build them a million dollar a
22:31 year business.
22:33 Mhm.
22:34 Which is it's just it is incredible to
22:36 see the way that it scaled the
22:38 communities. I think the the thing that
22:39 I'm most excited about with watching you
22:42 grow that company is the ability to find
22:45 people who really A lot of these people
22:47 have been burned by one, two, three,
22:49 four other coaches.
22:50 Absolutely.
22:51 You get them into a program that
22:52 actually delivers and then you get these
22:54 amazing testimonial success stories of
22:57 you have all these students who learn
22:58 from the right people
23:00 and the brands grow organically.
23:02 Incredible what you've done with that
23:03 company.
23:04 Apex, you and I own that bad boy
23:06 together. That company is expanding like
23:08 I never imagined it could.
23:11 But you've ended up with this portfolio
23:13 of business. I don't even know how many
23:14 people we employ there. If you account
23:16 the for for the maintenance stuff. Lots.
23:18 Yeah. I we probably employ what and
23:20 everything at least 25 people at this
23:22 point. I'd imagine.
23:22 We have 25 people minimum working around
23:24 the clock.
23:25 Yeah.
23:26 It's just incredible to see the scale
23:28 and impact you've had. You've moved to
23:30 Texas. You've been here about two years.
23:32 And the impact that you've had on Texas.
23:34 You employ all of these people. uh you
23:36 know within state and out of state. The
23:39 companies are all moving. You've done a
23:42 lot of good for a lot of people. You
23:43 provide great housing. The rena work
23:45 that we've done together I'm really
23:47 really proud of. We came into agree beat
23:49 up entry level housing on some of them.
23:51 Some of them are just nice.
23:52 But a good deal. We had beat up property
23:54 that's mismanaged. We fixed the
23:56 management. We fixed the actual
23:58 properties. cuz we invested
24:01 I don't know at this point probably
24:02 about half a million dollars back into
24:04 Stevenville, Texas so far
24:06 at least
24:07 at least maybe a little bit more.
24:10 It's been a fun adventure to see what
24:13 you can do at your age. A lot of it
24:15 seems almost impossible in in buying
24:18 ants and park
24:20 cuz that that's exciting. That will more
24:21 than double your portfolio. Everything
24:23 you've done is dwarfed by one
24:25 transaction which is kind of insane to
24:27 think about, right? Yeah. The
24:30 what is the overall strategy for that
24:33 deal? So So we know we know you're
24:35 you're raised another $4 million. You're
24:37 going to be bringing in people, but what
24:38 is the what is the actual vision for the
24:40 project?
24:42 Yeah. Actual vision. I was also just
24:43 doing the unit count. After that one,
24:44 I'll be about 415 units.
24:47 I was doing the math. There was too many
24:49 there's too many properties like doing
24:50 my heads. Let's just write it on a
24:51 calculator. I'll be at 413 units after
24:53 that actual vision for Anson Park. And
24:57 then the other deal we're buying next
24:58 door, we're not mutual yet, is really so
25:00 we're buying a lot of LAC. We're kind of
25:01 doubling down on tax credit deals. Texas
25:03 is one of the only states where you can
25:05 buy these low-income housing tax credit
25:07 properties and actually remove them from
25:09 said program successfully, exit the
25:12 program and actually take them to market
25:14 rate over the next few years. So that's
25:15 the same plan with Anson Park, same plan
25:18 the next deal we're looking at is we're
25:19 going into these super stabilized
25:21 communities. That's the beauty beauty of
25:22 LITC. I get people all the time asking
25:24 me, "Hey, why don't why didn't the
25:25 previous owner execute a qualified
25:27 contract?" It's when you have these
25:28 Titans, these REITs that you and I are
25:30 now buying from with 3,000 properties.
25:32 They don't even know this thing is on
25:33 their books. They just see low-inccome
25:35 housing tax credits. It's stable. It
25:38 adds so much stability to their books.
25:40 All these deals are 92 plus% occupancy.
25:43 So, we're going to come in there. We're
25:45 going to work on executing the qualified
25:46 contract. We're going to work through
25:47 the process of bringing this out of the
25:49 low-inccome housing tax credit program.
25:51 We're gonna take the three years to burn
25:53 off the subsidies and we're going to
25:54 take this thing to market rate and we're
25:56 going to be exiting for almost double is
25:58 kind of the game plan on this project.
26:01 It's ridiculous what you do. And by the
26:03 way, by removing from these programs,
26:05 we're not eliminating all the low-income
26:07 housing programs.
26:08 Absolutely. There's a ton of different
26:09 ways to do lowinccome and with
26:11 government subsidy with working with
26:13 tenants. We're not trying to displace
26:15 people or push them out of a property.
26:17 We are kidding.
26:18 No, you're looking at the the highest
26:20 and best use of the property and how we
26:22 use the existing system to house people
26:24 in a program that makes more sense than
26:26 simply let's restrict the rent and get
26:28 people in here. Let's get people the
26:30 help they need with the systems they
26:32 have, but also maximize the
26:34 profitability of the property. So, you
26:35 can you can do both. Sometimes we get
26:38 the the question of like, well, can you
26:40 can you actually do good and make money
26:42 at the same time? And the answer is
26:43 absolutely you can
26:45 without a doubt. Yeah. And it's also
26:47 helps even helps people more if you
26:49 think about it because after we're
26:50 buying these projects, we're removing
26:52 them from that program that opens up
26:54 more funding and more availability for
26:56 said program. So that actually allows
26:58 these programs that was actually in
27:00 Trump's big beautiful bill is there was
27:02 stuff specifically for this to allow for
27:04 more of these LITC opportunities to
27:06 build which is great for developers. The
27:08 tax write off these developers get is
27:10 ludicrous on the tax credit side. And
27:12 it's also for these next owners after
27:14 these five years after the developers
27:15 build it, they can sell. And then these
27:17 next owners can actually step into a
27:19 project with a lot of upside, a lot of
27:21 stability, and ride that project out and
27:23 eventually get it out of the program and
27:24 see a nice exit for themselves and have
27:26 people a good place to live. And that's
27:29 the way that we want to see these things
27:30 come together every single time. That is
27:33 the that is the push is you come into
27:35 the project, you run it well, you don't
27:37 displace a bunch of people, uh, and you
27:39 do the improvements. uh 76 unit. You
27:41 know, we're already getting, you know,
27:43 contractors will be coming in pretty
27:44 soon, ripping out the old playground,
27:45 building a new playground,
27:47 fixing the old tattered flags. We're
27:49 adding all the safety features that
27:50 needed to be added originally, fixing
27:53 duct work, the whole nine yards,
27:55 getting the projects done, right? Super
27:58 exciting to follow what you're doing.
28:00 And Caleb, if uh if people wanted to
28:02 connect with you, if coaches wanted to
28:04 reach out to you about your program, if
28:06 investors wanted to reach out to you
28:08 about the Abene deal, I don't know where
28:09 you're at with um with with filing and
28:11 capital raising and all, but with your
28:15 deals and your companies, if someone
28:17 wanted to connect with you, what is the
28:19 easiest way for them to find?
28:20 Yeah, easiest way to find me is on
28:22 Instagram. It's Caleb. It's pretty easy.
28:25 Real estate pops up pretty easy there.
28:26 Um, that's the easiest way to reach me.
28:27 Whether you want to talk sales,
28:29 business, real estate, Anson Park,
28:31 Abalene and Stevenville, you name it,
28:32 that's the best place to reach me. That
28:34 is fantastic. Kale, thank you so much
28:36 for joining. I'll see you downstairs in
28:37 my house here in about five minutes.
28:39 Everyone, thank you so much for
28:40 listening. Follow, subscribe to wherever
28:44 you're listening to this, and we'll see
28:45 you all on the next episode. See you.